Bald Guy Limo – Marketing Out Of The Box

Cardinal: Hello, welcome to WCBC review, where we are putting the spotlight on small business owners on the West coast, which is the best coast.  Today, we've got Dave Galvan. How are you today?

Dave: I'm great. How are you? I

Cardinal: I Am so fantastic.

You're the owner of bald guy limos?

Dave: My  wife and I own and run it together.

Cardinal: Oh my gosh. That's so great. So how long have you been in business for?

Dave: Oh, golly about it's been about three years coming up three years.

Cardinal: That's that's awesome. That's coming towards the hump. I hear it's like the one-year hump and then the five-year hump. And then after five years, you're good. As a small business.

Dave: I heard that for us it's been the one-year hump and COVID. The COVID to

Cardinal: that. We'll get to that today, for sure. So what made you want to start a limo business?

Dave:  Well, it's very simple. I really hated my job. I was a bartender. I worked here, I live in the Portland area and I worked in a company called Dotty's and if you're not familiar with it, it's one of these places that exist just for gambling.

Yeah, but they don't legally exist just for gambling because they can't legally exist just for gambling, but they just exist just for gambling. Anyway, long story short I really was, I'd been there for a few years and it was just getting down on me and I'm a serial entrepreneur. I was trying to do something that was different and didn't take a lot of thought, but made some good money. And I started, I had the idea of the limo business.

Cardinal:  I've seen pictures of your limo.

It's beautiful.

Dave: That's actually a classic. It's a 96 town car. I haven't upgraded it at all. I mean, I've upgraded the air conditioning system because it had to come up to modern standards, but the I have not upgraded, like the TV is the original old CRT television with a VCR in it. I have not upgraded that because.

Honestly, nobody watches the television. Anyway, I just have a, an old VHS copy of star Wars. I put on it there. People tend to just go, Oh, cool. Star Wars! And for kids. Cause we will do kids parties too. Believe it or not. I have a Batman cartoon I put on. So that goes out. Great. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

We've put a lot of time into the card and got a lot done to it. So, you know, it's a bit of a classic yes, it's it was the, the plan wasn't for it to be our beginning car. And then you slowly grow from there . WIth COVID, I don't know how that's going to end up, but Hey, that's the exciting part of business ownership, isn't it?

Cardinal: Yes. Yes. So for our listeners there, the car is. It's beautiful. It's a black limo. It has a tinting on the windows and it's got a very classic boxy look. And the dream of the nineties is alive in Portland, right?

Dave: No joke, but I'll tell you the engine just purrs in this thing. When I first got it. It purred.

If you were doing 60 miles an hour and after a. A few thousand dollars and me sleeping on the couch. Cause my wife wasn't happy about that. No, I'm kidding. It was just some professional disagreements here and there on that. But we got to working great it, purrs, and purrs and purrs.

As beautiful.

Cardinal: So when you were first opening your business three years ago, what was some of the toughest things that you had to address?

Dave: The toughest things is I had to address was marketing. I've always heard that business is mainly who, you know, and You know, I'd probably say that's 80 to 90% true. Cause you know, it's not just who, you know, it's who they know as well. But you know, that's neither here nor there. Marketing is very difficult when you're getting started with a limo business.

When you start a limo business, it's different than starting a restaurant. So with a restaurant you're on a corner, you put a big old sign up that says we sell tacos or whatever. People know what a taco is. People know what a limo is, but they're more than likely to eat a taco than take a limo .

That was my main thing. My web design was not up to par because I did it myself and I don't know anything about web design. That's a whole different story we can talk about if you want. But I consider web use and web design part of marketing as well, but I have run into just marketing challenges.

That was probably the biggest problem. Once you've been around for a year. Now, people know that you aren't some guy with a square account... and "wait a minute. Some guy wants me to give them $600 over the phone? Wait a minute." Cool. So once you've been around for a couple of years, they realize, okay, this guy's probably not stealing from me.

And he's got some decent Facebook reviews, he's got some good Google reviews and so on and so forth that go back a couple of years. So now you're a little bit more trusted. It was just that, like you said earlier, that first year hump that can be kind of you know, intimidating and it can probably get a lot of people to just throw the towel in.

Cardinal: Yeah. Yeah, I see that for sure. I like what you said about networking. I've heard the phrase, your network is your net worth.

Dave: Well, I'll tell you I've I've had some good experiences and bad experiences cause mostly, well, mostly kind of in the middle, but some of my networking, a lot of my networking was mainly people trying to sell me stuff.

Where everybody's there trying to sell their stuff. They're not necessarily there to buy someone else's stuff. Right. So I have made some contacts, networking, not as much as I wished, but there was a lot of people trying to just get me to buy their stuff, you know, whether it's their car detailing or whether it's advertising or when you're dealing with I don't want to tell people not to go with the chamber of commerce, but when you're dealing with a chamber of commerce, you tend to be dealing with the same 20 people every week.

And most of them are the, the top tier members. So they're bankers. Real estate agents and so on and so forth. So these are the people who are paying the high end money to get their names on the top of the list. And they're more interested in having you buy from them than vice versa. Whereas I, you know, my wife and I literally run this out of our house.

I tell people my office is wherever I am with my cell phone. I have taken orders from people while shopping in target. Wow, no joke. And you know, that's just, that's just how it is. So, you know, again, don't want to dissuade people from going with a chamber cause a good chamber can be very beneficial. On the other hand, you know, you kind of have to look at whatever network meeting you're at and decide whether it's a good fit.

Yeah. I have seen that a lot. A lot of people misunderstand what networking events are about and really they're more about building that connection and that sort of referral system. So even if. You're like, nobody is there to buy, but maybe, you know, a month down the road, somebody they know says, Oh, I really need that car detailing.

And they're like, Oh, you know, I know the guy.

Yeah. I have a shoe box filled with business cards of people that I've meet. And I always just take it and put it in the old shoe box. And. Whenever someone comes to me and it happens to in conversation, I need such and such. I have a guy and then I go get my shoe box and I, and they go, why are you giving me a shoe box?

Are you giving me shoes? No,

Cardinal: that would be, that would be a fun pair of shoes to just like, have it have business cards all over them. There's a new vans too.

Dave: So all that's in there is business cards. I was looking for a box and there it was

Cardinal:  so, if you had to start over from day one, is there anything that you would have done differently in your business?

Dave: Yes, I would have done my website differently. I would have done my I would not have paid a company to do my SEO for me. I would have just focused on doing it organically. That was a big mistake. We ended up paying a company it was $700 and they really didn't do much of anything for us. And in fact, actually I've done better on the SEO.

Ranking on Google than they ever did. And that's just by, you know, doing social media posts and that's just by making fun little YouTube videos and stuff like that. Yeah. A quick aside. But a lot of people don't know YouTube is owned by Google. So if you put a link clickable link of your website in your video description, say sponsored by, and you've got that clickable link there when someone clicks it they.

It counts as far as a Google click. It's like the same as if you were going on Google. So it actually makes things a little nicer SEO. I would have purchased a limousine that sat eight people, my limo seats, six people, most people call, well, a lot of people who call and say, I need it for eight people.

And I'm like, ah, I can't really do much for you. So I probably would have done that a little, little bit differently. So if I knew better, I would say marketing, SEO and website, all that. And my limousine, I love my limo, but I wish it sat eight people. Yeah.

Cardinal: Yeah. I saw it on your website under your FAQ.

One of the questions is can I put more than six people in the limo? And the answer is no, it's illegal.

Dave: Yeah, it is. And here's another thing that's kind of an interesting aside. If your limousine or your car, whatever, it doesn't matter if it's a limo, doesn't matter if it seats 12 people or more, it's no longer regulated as a car it's regulated as a bus, which means my insurance triples.

Ah, so sometimes you'll see a limousine that seats 10 people in the back. We're talking about the driver as well. The driver counts as a person. Of course, if you have a limousine that seats 10 people in the back, sometimes you'll see that they will have taken the passenger seat up front out.

That way, there is no way there could be 12 people in there. So not only is it regulated as a bus you have to have that the insurance of a bus and every other car in the company fleet has to be insured the same. Yeah. This is an interesting aside that nobody has any reason to know, but I'm just telling you an inside secret.

Cardinal: Yeah. That's sort of things that you figure out. I want to circle back to that great tip that you gave about the YouTube videos. And I want to kind of build on top of that. Cause , we also do like SEO. We know how to talk to Google, that kind of

Dave: stuff. No you're way ahead of me. Then

Cardinal: Google loves to see your name, name, address, and phone number together.

We call that a citation and the number of citations you have across the internet impacts your ranking. So, if you can create a YouTube video, which as you said, YouTube is owned by Google. So they really like to, they really like to put those together. If you can create a YouTube video, that's titled with your name, address, and phone number that counts as a citation, and it can help your your local search ranking.

Dave: I didn't know that  that is great advice for somebody who does own like a restaurant or has an office somewhere.

Yeah.

Cardinal: Okay. So now for the fun part, are we gone with your, with the beginning of your business, we're going to come to the present. So for anybody watching this in the future this is, this is the aftermath of 2020.

Dave: We are in hold on, hold on. I'm sweating already.

Cardinal: I know we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

It is COVID 19. So I'm going to ask you what was the toughest part about having a business in 2020,

Dave: the phone going quiet.  Let's start from beginning. January, 2021 year ago, we had record numbers as far as same, as far as the numbers from the previous year, same month, previous year, our January, 2020 was off the charts.

Wonderful. February comes again. Off the charts March comes, forget about it. March changed everything. I did not have a call March, April, may, June, July. Things were lightening up a little bit. Some people were getting married because they had to put their weddings off. I'm also an ordained minister, which.

A lot of people don't know, and I can actually legally marry anyone in the state of Oregon. So that actually kind of parlays with the limo business. So I was able to get a few clients in July from that. And then I had a couple clients in August and now it's been September, October, November, December.

And we're almost at the end of January, I haven't gotten a call, a couple emails maybe, but nothing serious. So the hard part is that phone not ringing. That's the hard part you kind of just got to get used to it, I suppose. the problem for me is with everything's shut down.

There's nowhere to go. So my busy time is actually September, October, November, because I've got actually a bunch of regulars who want to hire me to take me down to either Corvallis or a Eugene for a. Football games and, well, they're not having an audience there. So there it goes out. I mean, that was easy money.

You literally just throw a bunch of beer in the back there in the back, Yahoo and the partying it up all the way down, and then they're drinking all the way there. And, but on the, on the way back there passed out drunk and I just dropped them off at home. And then in the meantime, I just hang out in the town at some restaurants someplace, or usually a buffet, so I can eat myself senseless.

And you know, it's an easy 600 bucks.

Cardinal: If you were getting any, getting any calls, what sort of precautions would you take if you were to drive anyone anywhere? Oh,

Dave: we always, we always wear a mask. And we just sanitize everything really well. I mean, everybody who travels in the back. You know, they're usually with their own party people that they hang out with anyway, so they can wear a mask if they want.

But you know, I wear a mask at all times. And you know, I haven't caught it yet, so I figure I'm doing something right. As an aside, I got a phone call yesterday from my father who has not officially been diagnosed yet, but it's looking like he did catch it. So we've got our fingers crossed there cause he's 72.

Yeah. So anyway, we just sort of it's easy, pretty easy to do. Cause I got a piece of glass that goes up between the, the driver's side and the passenger side. So that's pretty easy to kind of keep a distance from them and just wear a mask when needed.

Cardinal: In the future when , limo, rides, pick back up, what what differentiates you from the rest of the limo services?

If they had to choose between you and three of your competitors, why would you suggest someone gives you a try? First?

Dave: Most of my competitors are going to give you an eight hour minimum. Wow. Yeah. I know of one competitor who is he, he's got a Hummer limo. And for that he charges $165 an hour with an eight hour minimum.

My minimum is four. The reason behind that is I don't have to pay a guy to drive it. I just drive it myself. So I don't have a payroll that unfortunately we haven't grown big enough for me to have a payroll, but that's, that's mainly what differentiates us, because I don't have that minimum. Our prices are relatively less because I don't have to pay anybody.

So during the, during the week, it's a 99 an hour with a four hour minimum, Friday and Saturday, it's one 20 an hour with a four hour minimum. That's mainly what differentiates me from the from the competition.

Cardinal: Awesome. Well, let's say in a perfect world, if there is no COVID. What are your plans for growth?

Like how far do you want this to go?

Dave: Oh, you know, that's a good question. I mean, the plan was this would be my livelihood until I retired, to be honest with you, but I'd love it to be bigger, you know, get another car or two, and and get one that seats eight people and You know, just kind of slowly grow from there.

I didn't want to grow too fast cause I've seen a lot of businesses actually suffer from growing too fast and then people make wrong decisions on the way and so on and so forth. Let me tell you, I got really lucky when I first started this, I got on YouTube, which is one of the greatest teaching tools ever.

I swear. YouTube is awesome. And I found a guy who started a limousine company in Oregon and it lasted a year or two and he closed it down and I did everything the opposite that he did. And I, that's probably the only reason we're still in business. And that is I have no debt in my company. Wow. So if I.

I've just sort of taken the company, set it aside a little bit. And if it doesn't pick up until November, you know, whatever, my number one expense is fuel. And if the limo is just kinda sitting there, then what, you know, whatever. We didn't renew our vehicle registration. Because the vehicles just sitting there, but the next time I get a client, I just call up and go.

Yeah. Could you just redo it? Okay. Boom, two seconds later, I got a car I'm back to my, I have to have a million dollar liability insurance policy with it. . So that was something that I prepared for in case you know, something was to happen and that is. I didn't have any debt.

I paid cash for everything. When I was a bartender, I just saved my money and put it aside and waited until the time came. And there you go. Now I know not everybody's able to do that, but you need to,  you need to prepare for a, an event like this.

Cardinal: Yeah. Yeah. That's smart.

Yeah. So yeah. Why do you want your business to grow? Is it just because you never want to go back to being

Dave: a bartender again? I never want to go back to being a bartender again. You know,  I've always told people because I do this from home because I don't have anyone working for me. I don't have to be working seven days a week just to pay, you know, pay bills.

You know, I told, I told my wife, once I said, really, I just need to work about maybe 20 hours a month. Okay. You know, more would be nice. But the fact is at this stage in my life and something may change tomorrow. I can't predict that I don't need. No, I don't have a fleet that I'm paying money on. I don't have a headquarters I'm paying rent on and so on and so forth.

Again, that was just careful planning on my part. I prepared to try to spend as little money as possible. I'm really the cheapest man you've ever met.

Cardinal: I think that's smart. So  you just want to be the boss of your own time. It seems like you've got a family. So you want to spend more time with them.

Dave: Yeah. I'll tell you what, I think it was also a safety issue. Cause I got tired of dealing with drunks and then one night, and to be honest with you, I'm working at the Oregon city Dotty's and a guy comes in with a gun pointed at my face and tells me to empty the register. And I'm just like, Oh, I got to get a new job.

And it was that was the, that was when I kind of started planning things at that point.

Cardinal: Wow. That is scary. You

Dave: want to know? You want to know a funny part of the story is this guy was a total amateur. He was just some stupid kid. He was wearing a mask that covered his he's only his eyes were exposed, but you could tell he was really young.

He walks in the door and I'm standing there. I go, really? We're going to do this really? And I walk around the counter. I flip the silo alarm and I opened up the registered and pulling money out. And he's got this gun pointed at me and he's looking somewhere else. All of a sudden, I kind of just stopped, but I look at this gun.

I'm like, I don't know anything about firearms. It's just not my thing. I'm looking at this thing. I'm like, that thing looks pretty small. And then I look at the barrel and it's got a sticker on it, like a warning label. And all I'm thinking about is it says, don't point this towards your eye when you're playing airsoft.

That's all I'm thinking about. So I'm thinking, Oh, this thing doesn't look real. So at that point, I'm like, well, you know what, no guts, no glory. I slammed the register. I start screaming at him. And I had a couple customers that were around a corner, hoping they'd be smart enough to pick up their cell phone and dial nine one one.

Now they weren't. But I'm screaming at the guy and he just kind of sits there and looks kind of lost turns around and walks out the door. And and that's, it that's all that happened. I don't even think they ever caught the guy

strange. Yeah. It's really

weird. Yeah. But after that, I'm like, I need a new job.

Cardinal: Yeah. So in your, in your limo company, do you want to be a driver forever or are you. You mentioned that you were a serial entrepreneur before, are you wanting to start different things you want to step back and just kind of be the puppet, master, pulling all this stuff.

Dave: I love driving you know, driving is for the most part, it's a pretty simple job.

You just gotta treat the client. You know, I always treat the client like gold because that's what they're paying for, you know? But driving is pretty easy. You just kind of sit there and you kind of do this. With the wheel and there do I want to drive forever? You know what, in a perfect world, I've got people working for me and I'm doing other things.

I mean, I've already started a side hustle, so to speak. That's just mainly something for me to do during this pandemic. Cause I'm sitting here. Pulling out what's left in my hair. I mean, we're called bald guy limo for a reason, man. I got nothing left.

Anyway you know, in a perfect world, that's what that's what it would be. But you know, again, you know, you can't predict what's going to happen tomorrow, let alone a month from now. I never would have guessed this would have happened never in my lifetime.

Cardinal: So , we're getting ready to wrap up here. I just have two more questions for you, Dave. The first one is what is your number one way that you're currently bringing in new customers. And I realized that this might be a little bit wonky because of our times, but what do you rely on?

Pre COVID days where they finding you online, did you have?

Dave: Nope. Okay. So the best form of of marketing that I've done is actually organic Facebook. That's the best form of marketing I've done.

I've done of number of Facebook ads. I have gotten one customer from Facebook ad. I got a little inventive and I went to Google translator and I translated a small message into Spanish. And I Posted the ad for people who speak Spanish for quinceaneras and it got me a call. She was a sweet, sweet woman who was trying to get a limo for her daughter's quinceanera.

And she didn't have a lot of money. So I've made her a deal. And I said, well, what the heck? You don't, you know, It's a quinceanera. You don't need me for four hours. So I made a deal for her and that was as the only time of Facebook ad has ever gotten me any money. Everything else is very organic. I was a sponsor of a TV show here.

In Portland, it was called WC WC. I doubt you've heard of it. You don't look like somebody who would watch this show. It stood for West coast wrestling connection. It was, it was a local pro wrestling show. Yeah. And. I mean, voodoo donuts was a sponsor and one of the radio stations was a sponsor and I they, they worked a deal with me.

It was part cash part Schrade they use the limousine in their filming. So the they'd film of the wrestlers showing up in a limousine and that sort of thing. And so they made an in ran commercials for me. Didn't get me anything. That was fun though, because I would get recognized by people at grocery stores.

So that was, that was pretty cool. If you're old, like I am you remember the old Portland wrestling had a guy named Tom Peterson advertising and he was there every week and he was recognized for it, but, so that was kind of fun. Other than that I have not run any radio. I don't, I think a TV is not going to do much for me.

Radio is probably not either. But the best I've gotten is organic social media, mostly off Facebook, nothing off Twitter, nothing. I've gotten one Raider client off the Instagram. And that's that. So, you know, if I was to give advice to someone, I'd say start making fun little videos on on YouTube.

And of course put your clickable link in there and and start putting it on on Facebook and see, and make it fun and funny and make it shareable. So people go look at this that's that's advice I would do personally. Yeah. I

Cardinal: saw your silent movie, 30 seconds, YouTube commercial. That was really

Dave: fun.

Did you love that? That was my daughter who was in that we've we literally filmed. Her right outside my house. And then I couldn't fit the limo in a decent shot. So he went around the corner to the elementary school, just like literally right around the corner. It was on a Saturday or something. And that was where we filmed that.

And that was just something I had an idea for. And and she wasn't field. She was actually sick that day and she wasn't feeling great. I said, all you have to do is to stand there for five minutes. And that was that. And it was great. It turned out really well. Everybody liked it. Yeah, I

Cardinal: loved it.

The show must go on,

Dave: right? It must go on.

Cardinal: Okay. So the thing that I like to wrap up with is  if you had one piece of advice for new small business owners, what would you tell them? .

Dave:  First of all, surround yourself with people you trust. Okay. I was fortunate that I said, I want to get business with my wife.

Well, obviously I trust her. Fortunately for me, she studying accounting. So that actually is very helpful on the business. End of things. so surround yourself, always with people you trust. The other thing is it goes back to the marketing. It's always marketing and that's what I've learned.

It's always marketing. If you have yet. To start your business, go to your community college and maybe take an intro to marketing class. I I'm look, I'm not saying you need a super bowl commercial. That'd be kind of cool. But Jay Conrad Levinson was a genius. He's the guy who created what we call gorilla marketing.

And one of the things that. Is kind of gorilla that I'm actually considering doing is, but I got to wait for the rainy season to end is to get my company name out on a stencil that says bald guy limo .com on it. And then you go downtown at Saturday market and on the sidewalks, put it on the ground and pour chalk over it.

So it says bald guy limo on it. Well, it's not vandalizing because it's chalk, it's totally legal. And now you've got a million people walking by looking at it. Okay. That is something that you got to think outside the box. Again, you got to wait until spring. Did, I mean, doing it now is kind of pointless.  That's great.

That

Cardinal: really reminds me of in the E-Myth he talks about how most people who start businesses are. What, he calls technicians. They're people who are really good at something, let's say baking pies, they love baking pies and they're tired of working for somebody else.

So they're going to bake pies for themselves. The problem is that it really takes three. Personality traits to run a successful business. There's the technician, which is the doer, the manager, which sets us, sets up the systems and sorts things. And the entrepreneur, which comes up with the innovative ideas and is the forward thinker and the dreamer.

And I like what you said about how you need to focus on marketing. Cause that's, that's not a technician activity. That's not just doing the thing that you went into business to do. That is the actual business side of running a business. So I think that that's a really great piece of advice.

Thank you,

Dave: Dave. Oh, no problem. The other thing I kind of want to mention, this goes back to thinking outside the box during COVID with I'd had nothing to do. I've had a chance to focus on hobbies and, you know, pick up a few more. One of the things I've been doing for years is prepping.

Okay. Or survivalism. I want you to understand, I'm not one of those people who thinks that aliens are going to invade tomorrow, or I'm in the I'm in the bedroom making ammo saying Biden's going to take my gun. You know, all that stuff. I'm not anything like that. But at the same time, there's a 30% chance at any time an earthquake had hit Portland, whether it's.

Whether it's small or whether it's the big one they talk about. Well, okay. So I have, I started a podcast about prepping and of course that podcast is sponsored by bald guy limo .com. So what I did is I took my hobby. I talk about it. I interview people during the show. There's a commercial that plays. Oh  bald guy limo .Com.

Now the problem that I have is my business is very location specific. Whereas if you're in Florida, you're going to rent me to drive you around in Florida. it gives me an excuse to kind of, you know, do that.

This sort of gets back to what I was saying earlier. I kind of had a side hustle. Here's another one that's going to be. Sort of out of the box, so to speak, I am promoting an event later this year called Northwest survival expo. It can look at it on the website NWsurvivalexpo.com. If you look at the very top of the webpage is a big banner that says.

Bald guy limo .com up there. Would you go to the expo? It's and it's only going to be $10 per person to get in, when you go to the expo, you're going to see a lot of banners that say bald guy limo .com. The fun parts that makes me laugh is I'm charging people $10 to look at my advertisement,but seriously.

So you know, if you could turn your hobbies into podcasts or, or events like this, you can advertise your business at that event. It's again, it's sort of thinking outside the box, so it could be a couple of years to come up with that. Let me tell you, but it's, it's unique and it's not like the radio where you listen to the radio.

You'll expect to hear it and you kind of turn it. If you're like me, you're just changing the station when a commercial comes on anyway.

Cardinal: And you're listening to public radio where there's not even any commercials.

Dave: Don't like you

Cardinal: don't like KMHD

Dave: jazz radio. I don't listen to that. I'm a classic rock guy.

I'll listen to Katie or I listen to a CD.

Cardinal: Well, Dave, this has been an absolutely great interview. Thank you so much for coming on. And people can find you where?

Dave: People can find me  at bald guy limo .com. Now also you can find me on Twitter. I it's the one I'm using the most is @ P as in Paul, R as in Robert prepper.

PR prepper that's, that's mostly it. You can watch out my my YouTube channel, which has that commercial we were talking about. Just look up Dave Galvan, G a L V a N. And I just mostly use that to just play around with, I'm not. I'm not specific just for one thing, whether it's, whether it's prepping or whether it's a bald guy limo.

I take these family home movies and as a hobby, I edited like an episode of Rick Steves Europe. So I, I have a whole bunch of that. It's called Dave's family RV. Do a search for that baby. It's right

there. That's super fun. And we'll have all of the links to all of those resources in our show notes.

If anyone wants to go check out Dave, On his YouTube and really that commercial is super fun. So you should at least go look at that. It's only 34 seconds long. I think it's, it's really fun.

It's really, it was a lot of fun to put together.

Cardinal: All right, Dave. Well, thank you again, and I hope that you have a fantastic rest of your day and that you come out of this pandemic and are able to grow and see success in your future.

Dave: Well, I appreciate that it, to be honest with you One of my competitors is actually shut down because of the pandemic. So, Oh, you know, if this keeping this pandemic keeps going, I'm not crying. That's a real jerk thing for me to say, but you know, it is what it is. And I just, I just hope everybody's safe.

Cardinal:  All right. Thank you again.

Dave: Bye-bye.